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| DinoDrawer |
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| Hatchling |
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| Joined: Feb 04, 2008 |
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Post subject: Some questions
Posted: May 08, 2008 - 05:08 PM
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I have a few questions for anybody who can answer them.
I have read about tile, and I keep my leos and african fat tailed gecko on tile, but I am worrying about something. Somebody on another forum said this: Keeping leos on tile is a relatively new concept. So, the long term affects of using tile have not been seen. There are some problems with maybe keeping them on tile, and one of them is pressure on there joints, so that when they are older, they may have severe pain when walking and may have arthritis.
So, I don't know if that is true, but does it sound reasonable? I am not so sure. And with reptile carpet, can't they get their toes stuck in it? Somebody said that they had problems with there leo getting a toe pulled of when it got suck on carpet. Also(I read this in a bearded dragon book), I read that in some reptiles small threads of the carpet can get stuck around their claws, and constrict them to a point where they are necrotic and fall off. Has this happened to anyone?
Are pinky mice really that bad? I have read "Oh, leos can't have pinkies because they can't digest them". Everybody knows ron tremper right? Well, supposedly he uses them and he has no problems.
How smart are leos? My Girl Gina learned that if she sits on top of her favorite rock and jumps, she can get onto the screen. I think she is trying to learn how to escape, has this happened to anyone?
Does anyone have pictures of wild leopard geckos and the habitats they came from?
Thanks in advance.  |
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Dinosaurs ROCK!
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| Fiche |
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Post subject: RE: Some questions
Posted: May 08, 2008 - 05:33 PM
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1. I'm not sure that I would consider using tile with reptiles to be a "new" concept. As far as I know it has been around for quite some time. While it's possible that the tiles could cause joint pain I don't believe that this is a serious concern. In the wild leopard geckos live on hard packed rock and clay. They live in the crevices in rocks and under shrubs. The point I'm trying to make is that their native habitat is covered in hard surfaces. I don't see how tiles could cause them undue joint stress when their joints are built to be on hard surfaces.
2. I've never had my gecko lose toes or claws using reptile carpet, but she did have a hard time with it. She would get her claws tangled in it and sometimes her jaw would get stuck on it when she lunged for food. That is actually one of the reasons that I switched to tile.
3. Yes, pinky mice are really that bad. I know Ron Tremper and I respect the research he has done with the leopard gecko. Appreciating his work, however, does not mean that I agree with his methods. He does a number of things that I would not recommend to the average or even experienced keepers. One of those things is feeding pinky mice. Reading a number of sources on leopard geckos you learn that leopard geckos as far as we understand them are insectivores and are not adapted to digest mammalian fats. I'm glad he uses them with success, but I will not use them and will not recommend their use to others. It is unnecessary and potentially harmful to the gecko.
4. Leopard geckos are curious creatures and still wild enough that they survive on their instincts. Leopard geckos know what they need to do to get their needs met and sometimes this includes escaping. I've caught Spikey on her screen before and I strongly recommend screen lids for these guys because they are great at escaping.
5. I don't have any pictures of wild leopard geckos in their native habitats. I suggest doing a thorough internet search and hitting up your local library. I'm certain that with some research you can find all the pictures that you need.  |
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0.1.0 Leopard Gecko (Spikey)
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| DinoDrawer |
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| Hatchling |
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| Joined: Feb 04, 2008 |
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Post subject: RE: Some questions
Posted: May 08, 2008 - 06:52 PM
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| Thank you so much! My local library isn't good with anything, so there isn't even a point in trying. Thanks for the info on the pinkies. Is there any bug that is like pinkies? |
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Dinosaurs ROCK!
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| Shanna66 |
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| Joined: Dec 06, 2007 |
| Posts: 786 |
| Location: Va. |
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Post subject: RE: Some questions
Posted: May 08, 2008 - 07:06 PM
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| leos love waxworms, byt they are almost like pure fat, not too healthy. its like candy to them i guess. i give mine a waxworm as a treat very rarely |
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| LittleLouie |
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Post subject: RE: Some questions
Posted: May 08, 2008 - 11:39 PM
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Fiche covered everything well, so I won't repeat it 
Just wanted to comment that my leo, Boo, went through a time (when her tank was smaller, and she had a second level with a little hide on it) that she would climb up onto the top of the hide on the second level, and stare up for several minutes. Then, she would 'climb' on the glass for a few minutes, and jump high enough to get her front feet and head on the top edge of her tank, hang on and wiggle and squirm until she managed to get herself on the top edge of the tank . . . and then I would pick her up because I didn't want her falling down and getting hurt or lost. I would usually take the lid off, and talk to her and handle her for a couple hours each evening, so I was always watching when she did this. She did it more than once, and the way she went about doing it, I know that there was at least a little gecko planning involved! Sometimes, she would climb on top, and I would hold her for a while and put her back, and she would climb out again.
This same gecko has also learned how to get inside her favorite hide which has a unique and challenging for a gecko to find entrance. |
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Whatever is true, honest, just, pure, lovely, of good report, virtuous, praiseworthy:
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| GypsyKundie |
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Post subject: RE: Some questions
Posted: May 09, 2008 - 01:25 AM
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http://www.geckoforums.net/forumdisplay.php?f=8
David Attenborough has some video clips on them in the wild I have seen, and in them they were on hard packed dirt and rocks. (If you don't know who that is he's kinda like Steve Irwin or Jeff Corwin but less entertainment - more information - he's really respected and never places animals anywhere - just sits in the wild for years to get a good natural shot). I think that people think of the middle eastern desert as being all sand but thats not the areas of the desert where leos live.
Try MulberryFarms.com for snacks - they have every food you could want and a chart with nutritional information. The best thing you can do for your gecko is give it a variety. |
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| GypsyKundie |
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Post subject: RE: Some questions
Posted: May 09, 2008 - 01:34 AM
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| GypsyKundie |
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| Hatchling |
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Post subject: RE: Some questions
Posted: May 09, 2008 - 01:38 AM
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Aha! Sorry so many - but i'm interested to know this too hehe
heres one of them breeding in the wild -
WARNING! EXPLICIT GECKO SEX! NOT FOR HATCHLINGS.
<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ebx-kJrnM9c&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ebx-kJrnM9c&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object> |
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| GypsyKundie |
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Post subject: RE: Some questions
Posted: May 09, 2008 - 01:46 AM
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while searching on youtube I found this
<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/qJpX0bX5nas&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/qJpX0bX5nas&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>
just might turn you off to feeding pinkies - i know things getting eaten - but i cant help having less sympathy for worms - even though I just got silkworms for the first time - and they have WAY more personality than mealies and crickets - anyway! Hope all that crap helps |
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| unrealjill |
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| Adult |
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| Joined: Jun 01, 2005 |
| Posts: 1977 |
| Location: Edinburgh, Scotland |
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Post subject: RE: Some questions
Posted: May 09, 2008 - 10:06 AM
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Couple of things to add - whilst I love Attenborough the leos featured in Life In Cold Blood were captive bred and filmed at a house in England. They were not wild. Several other animals in the series were captive bred or from animal sanctuaries. It is just the nature of filming now.
Everything else was pretty much covered by the others but I wanted to add that all the stories of toes coming off when using reptile carpet relate back to the old style of RC which had a looser pile and loops. After the problems manufacturers changed to the current style. Claws and jaws do still get caught in carpet but there is no lasting damage to the leo from it. I used carpet for three years with no problems. Tile however is, in my opinion, an equal if not better substrate. |
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Jill
"It is better to debate a question without settling it than to settle a question without debating it." Joseph Joubert
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| GypsyKundie |
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Post subject: RE: Some questions
Posted: May 09, 2008 - 01:26 PM
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| No! Thats what I thought about them being captive bred cuz they were so fat and my teacher VISCIOUSLY conviced me that he would never do that! Bummer. |
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| unrealjill |
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| Adult |
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| Joined: Jun 01, 2005 |
| Posts: 1977 |
| Location: Edinburgh, Scotland |
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Post subject: RE: Some questions
Posted: May 09, 2008 - 01:49 PM
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| Nope they were CB. The cobra that spat at him was from a collection as well. The majority of the show was filmed in thewild but some of it wasn't. There was big thing in the press about it at the time. Attenborough defended it in interviews... if you go to the UK forum there is a thread about the show and I'm pretty sure there is a link to an article on it where he talks about the fact they used them in filming. |
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Jill
"It is better to debate a question without settling it than to settle a question without debating it." Joseph Joubert
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| DinoDrawer |
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Post subject: RE: Some questions
Posted: May 09, 2008 - 04:47 PM
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Now, I have another question regarding supplementation.
Many people say to dust with pure calcium 5 days a week, then on weekends, use vitamin d3 and calcium and reptile vitamins. I think when they don't need any calcium but they still eat it, it doesn't just pass through them, they still absorb it. Can't all of that calcium lead to kidney stones? |
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| Saucy |
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| Senior |
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| Joined: Mar 18, 2006 |
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| Location: Wisconsin |
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Post subject: RE: Some questions
Posted: May 09, 2008 - 07:04 PM
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Nope. Calcium is a water-soluble mineral, so what they don't digest just gets excreted in their feces and urates. I even asked my vet about this... unless you're basically packing their gut full of it, there's really no way just a dusting will hurt them.
To add about the pinkies... again, asked the vet and she said that when insectivores are fed too much animal protein, it will cause fatty liver disease. Insectivores are not meant to be digesting mammal protein pretty much at all, so if you're using too much mammal protein, fat deposits will start building up on the liver... and then damage occurs. And I also respect Ron Tremper, and Allen Repashy and the lot of the gecko gods, but I definitely don't take everything they say at face value. I would never feed my lizards pinkies, I'd never use sand nor would I house different species together, which are all things they find ok.
Just gotta take everything with a grain of salt! |
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2.2 Leopard geckos, 1.0 Fat-tailed gecko, 2.4.3 Crested geckos, 0.0.1 Gargoyle gecko, 0.0.1 White's tree frog, 0.2 Cats, LOTS of fish
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| DinoDrawer |
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Post subject: RE: Some questions
Posted: May 09, 2008 - 08:49 PM
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Ron doesn't mix species, and he doesn't use sand...
But anyway, is there a bug out there that has all the nutrition of a pinkie? I know to add variety, but I don't have locusts, tomato hornworms, silkworms, etc...
So what about feeder anoles? They don't have any mammal protein, right? I don't think I would give an anole to my geckos to eat, but I am just wondering. |
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